Independence Day is the new Thanksgiving as the Lions take center stage! Come for Layne-versus-Stafford, stay for the 10-minute Mellotron and 12-string guitar interlude.
my mom met george, she got a poem into the Paris Review in the late 90s. They had a long involved talk about college football (We're UTEP fans, she said. Oh dear, he said.) while the hip young literati of new york looked on in confusion and dismay.
There was an anonymous defensive player who said he was careful not to rush Scott Mitchell too hard because he wanted to make sure he stayed in the game. One can imagine that defender and Lomas Brown locked in a delicate kind of antifootball, doing the opposite of what they're meant to do for private reasons.
Also, this keeps happening to Scott Mitchell. In an old NFL Top Ten he was the tenth left handed quarterback of all time with "The Field" at number 9, and now in this list he's stuck behind The Lions Lie Down On Broadway.
LOL. I think it was an Eagles defender who said that. And I remember that NFL Top 10. I was the one they had say "C'mon, he was better than THE FIELD" at the end of his segment. I think that was in the back of my mind when I ranked him behind the Carpet Crawlers.
Love the 4-7 suite. Nearly up to 20 of these articles and still not repetitive. Thanks Mike!
The qb controversy chain in the Fontes era included Rusty Hilger - Bob Gagliano - Rodney Peete - Erik Kramer - Andre Ware - Dave Krieg. No one started more than 11 games in a season for 7 years (88 to 94).
Reminiscent of the 70s period but more extreme and with worse output. I'd love to think of a relevant metaphor, but I've gotta go to a Dream Theatre tribute....
Dave Krieg wasn't really part of 90's Quarterback Controversy Gang. He was an injury replacement for Mitchell in 1994 (after the alleged "accidental" missed block by Lomas Brown). He actually played excellent for that half-season, and turned around what was looking like a lost season into a playoff run. Unfortunately he suffered an injured throwing shoulder and played poorly in the Wild Card game....the infamous 13 carries for -1 yard game by Barrry Sanders.
I've been struggling to describe Jared Goff's quality as a quarterback, but your description of someone who can both elevate or sink an offense, depending on his surrounding circumstances is perfect.
So maybe this is a tortured analogy, but he's like the white rice of quarterbacks. By itself, white rice is kinda blah. Put it with good food, and it can really help bring out the flavor and enhance the meal. Pair it with a cheap or poorly prepared food, and it can make the whole meal taste even worse.
What about Erik Kramer? I don't remember much about him, but I do remember the Lions playoff victory over Dallas when Kramer played well. I'm a bit surprised he didn't appear in the top ten anywhere, especially given the mediocrity of some of those names
Your debating between Kramer and Peete is fitting, since Wayne Fontes spent '91-'93 debating between Kramer and Peete as his starting quarterback (he would also throw in Andre Ware from time time, to change things up).
I will give you credit for using more reasoning and decisiveness than Fontes, who seemingly made his decisions with either a dartboard or coin flips. When Dan Henning was fired as OC (justifiably so, IMO) in the middle of the '93 season, he reportedly quipped, as he was leaving the team facilities, to a beat reporter: "I'd better get out of here before Wayne changes his mind again."
I only remember him from hist short stint starting for the team, featuring his big playoff win. I trust your judgement anyway. :) I was surprised not to see him there.
My main memory of the Lions from my childhood is that they would only show up on TV on Thanksgiving, and I'd be watching a game full of players I had never heard of. It was like getting a broadcast piped in from Earth 2.
I am surprised Chuck Long wasn't even good enough to get more than a passing mention, but looking at his stats I guess that's pretty accurate. In my mind he was the Lions quarterback for a long time, but I have already established I only saw one Lions game a year during my childhood.
I am also writing this from the couch I purchased from my home office. And wait until the end of summer when I write an article about my weekend in the Poconos.
Charlie Batch could have been a fine quarterback. According to DVOA, he had one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history up to that point (at a time when rookies almost always stunk...there were no Andrew Luck or CJ Stroud-type rookie campaigns back then).
Unfortunately, his career was derailed partly by frequent injuries, but mostly because (stop me if you've heard this before) the Lions hired a ninny to be head coach: I'm old enough to remember when Batch was benched after week 1 (yes, week ONE) in favor of Ty Detmer, who proceeded to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNOJVvd0Y2A
There was a dearth of great rookie QB seasons around that time, wasn’t there? Peyton’s was the next year but it didn’t go very well. Big Ben was still in middle school. A whole lotta “sit and learn” going on in pre-rookie-salary-cap times, perhaps
A lot of theories for why that was. Antiquated college offenses that stunted quarterback development is one that gets brought up a lot, but not sure how true that is.
Didn’t Andre Ware go from Run’n’Shoot in college to Run’n’Shoot in Detroit? I was really surprised he flamed out. Do you think it could have been different?
Yes, he did. I suppose it would be fair to say the level of competition he faced while at the University of Houston was not the best, and perhaps artificially inflated his stats. Same thing happened with David Klingler apparently. Probably also fair to say that the Detroit Lions coaching staff was not great at developing young quarterbacks. He might have had a fighting chance if he stuck around for the arrival of Tom Moore as OC, but alas, he was off the team by then.
How sorry has the Lions franchise been? 2024 will be Dan Campbell's fourth season as coach in their 94th year as a franchise. And if they win one wild-card game, he will tie the Lions record for postseason victories, with three.
The Lions have won nine playoff games in their first 93 years. Patrick Mahomes has won 15 playoff games in six years as a starter.
I personally would have ranked Kramer ahead of Peete, if only because he was lights out in that playoff win against Dallas. He was a better passer than Peete (Peete, Kramer, and Andre Ware, in true Lions fashion, were mired in a 3 way quarterback controversy). But since Peete added value as a runner, and Kramer never started a full season, I can't quibble about the 10th spot too much.
I guess George Plimpton is dead last?
my mom met george, she got a poem into the Paris Review in the late 90s. They had a long involved talk about college football (We're UTEP fans, she said. Oh dear, he said.) while the hip young literati of new york looked on in confusion and dismay.
Heh. I should have done a Paper Lion thing!
I was gonna say "disappointed George Plimpton didn't make the list"!
There was an anonymous defensive player who said he was careful not to rush Scott Mitchell too hard because he wanted to make sure he stayed in the game. One can imagine that defender and Lomas Brown locked in a delicate kind of antifootball, doing the opposite of what they're meant to do for private reasons.
Also, this keeps happening to Scott Mitchell. In an old NFL Top Ten he was the tenth left handed quarterback of all time with "The Field" at number 9, and now in this list he's stuck behind The Lions Lie Down On Broadway.
LOL. I think it was an Eagles defender who said that. And I remember that NFL Top 10. I was the one they had say "C'mon, he was better than THE FIELD" at the end of his segment. I think that was in the back of my mind when I ranked him behind the Carpet Crawlers.
That’s hilarious, I’d love to know what player said that.
Love the 4-7 suite. Nearly up to 20 of these articles and still not repetitive. Thanks Mike!
The qb controversy chain in the Fontes era included Rusty Hilger - Bob Gagliano - Rodney Peete - Erik Kramer - Andre Ware - Dave Krieg. No one started more than 11 games in a season for 7 years (88 to 94).
Reminiscent of the 70s period but more extreme and with worse output. I'd love to think of a relevant metaphor, but I've gotta go to a Dream Theatre tribute....
Dave Krieg wasn't really part of 90's Quarterback Controversy Gang. He was an injury replacement for Mitchell in 1994 (after the alleged "accidental" missed block by Lomas Brown). He actually played excellent for that half-season, and turned around what was looking like a lost season into a playoff run. Unfortunately he suffered an injured throwing shoulder and played poorly in the Wild Card game....the infamous 13 carries for -1 yard game by Barrry Sanders.
I've been struggling to describe Jared Goff's quality as a quarterback, but your description of someone who can both elevate or sink an offense, depending on his surrounding circumstances is perfect.
So maybe this is a tortured analogy, but he's like the white rice of quarterbacks. By itself, white rice is kinda blah. Put it with good food, and it can really help bring out the flavor and enhance the meal. Pair it with a cheap or poorly prepared food, and it can make the whole meal taste even worse.
That "white rice" analogy is a fantastic one.
What about Erik Kramer? I don't remember much about him, but I do remember the Lions playoff victory over Dallas when Kramer played well. I'm a bit surprised he didn't appear in the top ten anywhere, especially given the mediocrity of some of those names
I was debating tying Kramer with Peete at the end. I risked another medley! Kramer also ended up sixth or seventh for the Bears, right?
Your debating between Kramer and Peete is fitting, since Wayne Fontes spent '91-'93 debating between Kramer and Peete as his starting quarterback (he would also throw in Andre Ware from time time, to change things up).
I will give you credit for using more reasoning and decisiveness than Fontes, who seemingly made his decisions with either a dartboard or coin flips. When Dan Henning was fired as OC (justifiably so, IMO) in the middle of the '93 season, he reportedly quipped, as he was leaving the team facilities, to a beat reporter: "I'd better get out of here before Wayne changes his mind again."
I only remember him from hist short stint starting for the team, featuring his big playoff win. I trust your judgement anyway. :) I was surprised not to see him there.
My main memory of the Lions from my childhood is that they would only show up on TV on Thanksgiving, and I'd be watching a game full of players I had never heard of. It was like getting a broadcast piped in from Earth 2.
I am surprised Chuck Long wasn't even good enough to get more than a passing mention, but looking at his stats I guess that's pretty accurate. In my mind he was the Lions quarterback for a long time, but I have already established I only saw one Lions game a year during my childhood.
C'mon dude. We know you mentioned that concert in the article so you can deduct the expenses from your taxes. No need to play games with us.
I am also writing this from the couch I purchased from my home office. And wait until the end of summer when I write an article about my weekend in the Poconos.
Charlie Batch could have been a fine quarterback. According to DVOA, he had one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history up to that point (at a time when rookies almost always stunk...there were no Andrew Luck or CJ Stroud-type rookie campaigns back then).
Unfortunately, his career was derailed partly by frequent injuries, but mostly because (stop me if you've heard this before) the Lions hired a ninny to be head coach: I'm old enough to remember when Batch was benched after week 1 (yes, week ONE) in favor of Ty Detmer, who proceeded to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNOJVvd0Y2A
There was a dearth of great rookie QB seasons around that time, wasn’t there? Peyton’s was the next year but it didn’t go very well. Big Ben was still in middle school. A whole lotta “sit and learn” going on in pre-rookie-salary-cap times, perhaps
A lot of theories for why that was. Antiquated college offenses that stunted quarterback development is one that gets brought up a lot, but not sure how true that is.
Didn’t Andre Ware go from Run’n’Shoot in college to Run’n’Shoot in Detroit? I was really surprised he flamed out. Do you think it could have been different?
Yes, he did. I suppose it would be fair to say the level of competition he faced while at the University of Houston was not the best, and perhaps artificially inflated his stats. Same thing happened with David Klingler apparently. Probably also fair to say that the Detroit Lions coaching staff was not great at developing young quarterbacks. He might have had a fighting chance if he stuck around for the arrival of Tom Moore as OC, but alas, he was off the team by then.
Yes, you're right that considering Klingler it does just look like the Cougars offense created mirages.
There must be an alternative universe where the Lions run Norv Turner's offense and Barry Sanders rushes for 2000 yards every year from 89-94
As an old Lions fan that brought back some memories. Some bad, bad memories.
Same. It's a sad list when a guy who's been in town for 3 years immediately seizes the #3 spot.
How sorry has the Lions franchise been? 2024 will be Dan Campbell's fourth season as coach in their 94th year as a franchise. And if they win one wild-card game, he will tie the Lions record for postseason victories, with three.
The Lions have won nine playoff games in their first 93 years. Patrick Mahomes has won 15 playoff games in six years as a starter.
Mike, that Layne Bleacher Report article is incredible. If only all of us were the perfect combo of great + alcoholics like Bobby!
Bobby Layne was the NFL quarterback version of Denzel Washington's character in the movie "Flight".
I personally would have ranked Kramer ahead of Peete, if only because he was lights out in that playoff win against Dallas. He was a better passer than Peete (Peete, Kramer, and Andre Ware, in true Lions fashion, were mired in a 3 way quarterback controversy). But since Peete added value as a runner, and Kramer never started a full season, I can't quibble about the 10th spot too much.
I have a soft spot for Peete because of his Philly days. He was also a well-respected locker room guy,
TIL there was a World Football League in the 70s.
Heh. That should be next year's summer project. It was INSANE.
@Mike, how can someone so gifted with snark enjoy music that is that..earnest? The duality of man?
I'm a Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man.